John Lofgren (Speedway)
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Not sure where all the CXL hate comes from, but I'm pretty sure it's not one of their cheapest leathers. Cheaper than shell cordovan, sure… but it's a full grain leather with an intricate, 89-step, 25-day human tanning process that they've had for a century: http://horween.com/101/chromexcel-2/
ed hates the cxl because he rides a motorcycle and has trashed some cxl boots shifting
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Nvm…. Tracked it down and I actually really like these
Going back to this pic - do you think the owner oiled, polished or treated them in some way to get them to darken/change that much? i can hardly believe what I'm seeing is just from wearing them - I wonder how much wear? Whatever it is, the result is fantastic.
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just to make it worse on you rafa
dont forget about the himel boots either
http://www.ironheart.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4412.30I'd never have guessed those were cordovan. I like the patina and wear on them, if not the toe.
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Nvm…. Tracked it down and I actually really like these
Going back to this pic - do you think the owner oiled, polished or treated them in some way to get them to darken/change that much? i can hardly believe what I'm seeing is just from wearing them - I wonder how much wear? Whatever it is, the result is fantastic.
It doesn't take much for the Badalassi leather to become darker in a short period of time. My Cognacs were bordering on yellow and with just a little sun, they've become a rich honey color without the aid of oils or polish. Just wearing them indoors the past few weeks, they've gotten even darker than the below photo I took not too long ago. I love that about this leather. I've got my crosshairs on the blue pair once John re-releases them in my size.
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Then there's the impending Lofgren work boots …
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just to make it worse on you rafa
dont forget about the himel boots either
http://www.ironheart.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4412.30I'd never have guessed those were cordovan. I like the patina and wear on them, if not the toe.
I think there's a difference between shell cordovan and cordovan horsehide, which might be why those boots look the way they do. But I'm not expert…
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Hey VEB, you wear a size 7 in all your Lofgren engineers? I'm thinking about getting a pair. I wear a 7.5 in Road Champs, so I think we have similar sizing. There's one pair of 7 Lofgrens left in black. Any sizing advice would be a great help. Also, how wide is the shaft, similar to the Road Champs? Thanks, I love your blog. It inspired me to buy my RCs.
-Andy
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I know they are both from the horse but I think shell cordovan is from a smaller section of the hide or something.
This is from the Fedora Lounge, I think describing the boots pictured from Himel Bros.: "small reference….I am still waiting to get my run of boots made....they are cordovan (shinki) but not shell cordovan...the difference is the shells are two 9 inch dinnerplate size discs inside the bean shaped piece of horsebutt that is the whole piece of cordovan. Real McCoys makes both...one is double the cost of the other...using shinki"
I'm no expert on leather. I own a pair of black shell Aldens and they look much different than those engineers.
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Yeah, sounds to me like someone over there is confused. Cordovan (which implicitly means "shell cordovan" I think) doesn't mean horsehide, it means a specific tanning process that's applied to a specific part of the hide, the shells. The shell is inside a part of the horse's ass that goes through a treatment to reveal the shell, removing outer layers. There's another durable layer just forward of that that I think is called butt and other things that's also really nice and durable, and then there's the rest of the hide, which you see used in garments (like my new A-2 or David's badass Buco j-100).
So, the varieties of Bucos are horse hide (maybe butt? maybe front quarter? guessing the former) and shell cordovan. The shell cordovan ones are astronomically expensive because the shinki cordovan hides are expensive to produce and use such a small part of the hide.
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I always assumed that cordovan implied shell as well, but that post seemed to be written by Himel himself, who would probably know more about it than me: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?43530-Engineer-Boots-Harness-Boots…/page111
Not trying to be argumentative here (tone can get lost on the interweb), I was just confused by this distinction between cordovan and shell cordovan and horsehide as well…
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Yeah, you'd think so… I've not heard the front part of the butt called cordovan before. An example is Viberg's "horse butt" boots, these would be from the horse's ass, from the "strip" north of the shells that I mischaracterized as the "butt" previously, but not termed "cordovan" because it's not from the shells. I guess there is non-standard terminology... Some people call that cordovan and the shells shell cordovan...
http://viberg.com/collections/footwear/products/service-boot-black-horse-butt
BTW, I am not trying to be argumentative either, I think this is a good discussion and an interesting and relevant topic
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Yeah an example for horsehide is the non-Shell horsehide vegetable-tanned buco horsehide enginneer. An example for horsebutt is my viberg x VMC anni engineer, but still not cordovan
Yeah, you'd think so… I've not heard the front part of the butt called cordovan before. An example is Viberg's "horse butt" boots, these would be from the horse's ass, from the "strip" north of the shells that I mischaracterized as the "butt" previously, but not termed "cordovan" because it's not from the shells. I guess there is non-standard terminology... Some people call that cordovan and the shells shell cordovan...
http://viberg.com/collections/footwear/products/service-boot-black-horse-butt
BTW, I am not trying to be argumentative either, I think this is a good discussion and an interesting and relevant topic
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Go and get your Lofgren buddy smile
I think Ed has turned me off of CXL!
Lol you guys
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Haha no worries here it's an important discussion, especially since cordovan–er, SHELL cordovan, that is--is so costly.
I wonder if there's a thread for discussing leather, tanning, etc...? Seems reasonable to have something like that if we don't.
Back OT, John indicated he would be willing to take a small group of IH addicts on a tour of the factories he uses once he gets his Tokyo offices operational in 2014. Very gracious offer, I hope this results in some pictures and commentary in this thread!
EDIT: I feel better about that picture of the Himels, that it wasn't shell cordovan. That was messing with my head, just didn't look right!
