John Lofgren (Speedway)
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I know they are both from the horse but I think shell cordovan is from a smaller section of the hide or something.
This is from the Fedora Lounge, I think describing the boots pictured from Himel Bros.: "small reference….I am still waiting to get my run of boots made....they are cordovan (shinki) but not shell cordovan...the difference is the shells are two 9 inch dinnerplate size discs inside the bean shaped piece of horsebutt that is the whole piece of cordovan. Real McCoys makes both...one is double the cost of the other...using shinki"
I'm no expert on leather. I own a pair of black shell Aldens and they look much different than those engineers.
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Yeah, sounds to me like someone over there is confused. Cordovan (which implicitly means "shell cordovan" I think) doesn't mean horsehide, it means a specific tanning process that's applied to a specific part of the hide, the shells. The shell is inside a part of the horse's ass that goes through a treatment to reveal the shell, removing outer layers. There's another durable layer just forward of that that I think is called butt and other things that's also really nice and durable, and then there's the rest of the hide, which you see used in garments (like my new A-2 or David's badass Buco j-100).
So, the varieties of Bucos are horse hide (maybe butt? maybe front quarter? guessing the former) and shell cordovan. The shell cordovan ones are astronomically expensive because the shinki cordovan hides are expensive to produce and use such a small part of the hide.
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I always assumed that cordovan implied shell as well, but that post seemed to be written by Himel himself, who would probably know more about it than me: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?43530-Engineer-Boots-Harness-Boots…/page111
Not trying to be argumentative here (tone can get lost on the interweb), I was just confused by this distinction between cordovan and shell cordovan and horsehide as well…
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Yeah, you'd think so… I've not heard the front part of the butt called cordovan before. An example is Viberg's "horse butt" boots, these would be from the horse's ass, from the "strip" north of the shells that I mischaracterized as the "butt" previously, but not termed "cordovan" because it's not from the shells. I guess there is non-standard terminology... Some people call that cordovan and the shells shell cordovan...
http://viberg.com/collections/footwear/products/service-boot-black-horse-butt
BTW, I am not trying to be argumentative either, I think this is a good discussion and an interesting and relevant topic
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Yeah an example for horsehide is the non-Shell horsehide vegetable-tanned buco horsehide enginneer. An example for horsebutt is my viberg x VMC anni engineer, but still not cordovan
Yeah, you'd think so… I've not heard the front part of the butt called cordovan before. An example is Viberg's "horse butt" boots, these would be from the horse's ass, from the "strip" north of the shells that I mischaracterized as the "butt" previously, but not termed "cordovan" because it's not from the shells. I guess there is non-standard terminology... Some people call that cordovan and the shells shell cordovan...
http://viberg.com/collections/footwear/products/service-boot-black-horse-butt
BTW, I am not trying to be argumentative either, I think this is a good discussion and an interesting and relevant topic
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Go and get your Lofgren buddy smile
I think Ed has turned me off of CXL!
Lol you guys
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Haha no worries here it's an important discussion, especially since cordovan–er, SHELL cordovan, that is--is so costly.
I wonder if there's a thread for discussing leather, tanning, etc...? Seems reasonable to have something like that if we don't.
Back OT, John indicated he would be willing to take a small group of IH addicts on a tour of the factories he uses once he gets his Tokyo offices operational in 2014. Very gracious offer, I hope this results in some pictures and commentary in this thread!
EDIT: I feel better about that picture of the Himels, that it wasn't shell cordovan. That was messing with my head, just didn't look right!
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Hey VEB, you wear a size 7 in all your Lofgren engineers? I'm thinking about getting a pair. I wear a 7.5 in Road Champs, so I think we have similar sizing. There's one pair of 7 Lofgrens left in black. Any sizing advice would be a great help. Also, how wide is the shaft, similar to the Road Champs? Thanks, I love your blog. It inspired me to buy my RCs.
-Andy
Andy, All my Lofgren's are size 7 and they couldn't be any better in the fit department. My perfect-fitting RC's are 7 1/2. I say snag up the 7 if you have a chance. These are my first CXL boots and I just love 'em.
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No worries. I find them to be equal in diameter and both are pretty standard … Nothing too loose. Just right.
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Go and get your Lofgren buddy smile
I think Ed has turned me off of CXL!
I know Ed is not particularly find of CXL but there are many people across the web community's that have posted their reviews of their personal pairs of lofgrens and I've never seen anyone complain about the cxl getting beat too quickly. Everyone forms their opinions from personal experience while some worry about what others have stated. I've had several pair of cxl boots throughout my lifetime (though not lofgrens….yet) and I have been without issue with the exception of my final pair of Alden Indys, too which I blame the use of thinner cxl on the boot as a quality control and judgment call on Alden. There was nothing wrong with those pieces of CXL however their thickness would be more suited for a jacket rather than a boot. Alden has displayed their interest in cutting corners to meet the demand for a while now so that was no surprise to me (unfortunately, because I love my older Alden shoes). Anyways, I guess at the price point it might be considered "taking a risk" but you need look no further than VEB engineers to see that these are built to last. Just my 2 cents and take it for what its worth.
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Yep… It's a tanning process, there are all kinds of different hides and thicknesses available. This is a reasonably thick cowhide, I think it's going to be fine. John rides, I can't imagine he'd spec something that wasn't up to task.
That said, it's a big investment, and if one is at all even slightly uncomfortable with something as fundamental as what the boot is made out of, I can understand not pulling the trigger...
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I was just kidding with my CXL comment. After seeing VEB's black pair worn in, I think they look great. I have a pair of Alden Roy boots and Indies in brown CXL, both are nice. FWIW I have a friend who's works with leather making belts and bags and accessories and he doesn't like CXL leather for some reason.
Thanks for the help, VEB. I'm trying to decide between three different engineer boots for my next pair. Not sure if this makes my decision easier or harder. Maybe someone will snatch up the last size 7 Lofgrens and that will narrow it down for me!
