American Football (NFL)
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@SKT it's not that they shouldn't call fouls late in the game, it's that the consensus is that the ref's were leaning toward "finding" a penalty to call to keep that drive alive for them. The contact barely slowed the WR down (though your screen shot shows a jersey grab), the ball completely uncatchable.
I do however think the ref's gave Goedert that sideline catch that was bobbled before he had control and went out of bounds. That was one that went for the Eagles. the fumble I mentioned earlier went to the Eagles too, and I thought that was call was incorrect.
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That's a straw man. The argument was never to stop officiating contested games late. The argument is that, if they have been swallowing the whistle on calls like that the entire game, why stop in a circumstance that gift wraps the game for one of the teams?
I can tell you that every take that I've seen from an unbiased observer lines up with what Jeff and I are saying. Eagles fans have been pretty accepting it seems like, and focus on what their team did to lose the game, which was a lot. The rest of us without a dog in the fight want the game to resolve of its own accord and not to be denied the high drama of a late drive to go for the tie or win, in lieu of a clock kill and field goal, which is a comparatively lame way to end a game, even versus the Eagles going 4 and out against an amped up Chiefs D on a final drive.
It feels like an instant classic was turned at the last minute into a game that will only be remembered for that call.
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You guys are both being being very thoughtful with your responses and I want to do the same. I think what I’m having trouble with is the idea that you (neutral fan) expect the NFL refs to officiate the game in a way that maximizes your (neutral fans) entertainment. Also I didn’t see a bunch of similar holds that didn’t get called…maybe I should rewatch.
I think at the core I’m still just not on board with the idea the NFL actively pursues a preferred outcome by giving the refs instructions to help one team over another I just don’t see how that’s possible (again I may be naive).
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It’s not about entertainment. It’s about adjudicating the game consistently and letting the teams determine the outcome.
That tends to lead to more entertaining games, but that’s a side effect of doing things the right way.
It doesn’t matter WHY they made the call and that’s not what we’re discussing. It’s that they made the wrong call and corrupted the game.
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I'm not trying to be a wise ass,but the officiating is consistently inconsistent. I don't think it's changing any time soon if ever. It's the only sport that I follow,so I just deal with the sometimes frustrating aggravating calls. I thought the holding call was questionable until the defender said I held him and hoped I would get away with it/he wouldn't notice. Some times a quarterback will, intentionally,throw a bomb,knowing that the receiver is covered,hoping for the pass interference penalty. We've all seen that strategy. Correct me if I'm wrong,but I don't think the refs. are supposed to let whether or not the ball is catchable influence their decision. After The Chiefs came back from a 10 point deficit and took an 8 point lead without the help of the officials,I felt they deserved to win. Full disclosure I was rooting for them.
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@mclaincausey @jordanscollected Guys I’m enjoying this discussion and I hope you are too.
For the sake of clarity, do you both think the defensive holding penalty was called with the direct intent of helping the Chiefs win?
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@SKT with your wording it seems like a very harsh place to put my money on. Honestly, unless the actual ref comes out and clarifies it himself we will never know, and either @mclaincausey or I's putting a stamp on it would still be pure speculation. I get that my response is taking a step back in a way, but i won't put a stamp on the ref's intent.
I don't think the ref's got a word from head ref upstairs that said "keep this drive alive any way possible", but we've seen favorable calls again and again in the league that are wishy washy. Easily the most discussed this season would be the RTP calls, there have been others too.
In the end, regarding last night i think the ref had an itchy flag hand ready for the smallest infraction, whatever the end result would have been.
Even the refs couldn't fix whatever Hurts' final pass attempt was.
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On an episode of The Manningcast,Peyton noticed that a certain ref would be officiating the game,and that he had called him,repeatidly,for a certain foul throughout his career,even sighting exactly how many times he had penalized him. Eli couldn't believe he knew exactly how many times he was flagged by the ref in question,and added that he never flagged him for that. I'm sure there's lots of stories like that.
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I mean cmon, there's a difference between "bad calls happen" and taking a minute and a half and a timeout away from a team in the final two minutes of a tight game on something you've let slide the entire game.... You see that, right? Not all botched calls are equal. I am not arguing that the Eagles did all they needed to deserve to lose, but they didn't do anything not to deserve a shot at a final drive either.
The game was great up until that point because they refs stayed out of the way. They just couldn't help themselves at the worst possible moment and ruined the game for everyone who isn't a Chiefs fan.
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Two SBs in a row with a chance at game winning drives removed to end the game by extremely questionable calls. Idunno I guess I have high expectations for a dramatic ending when the teams effectively play to a draw.
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@mclaincausey If you don’t want to listen to the entire video at about 5 minutes in Stephen A. Says exactly what you’ve been talking about,which is a valid point.
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That’s basically what I’m saying and I think Dan had good points. Dude counter argues as if there’s even a question that the hold, which barely impeded the route, stopped Juju from being able to get to the ball, which is either a dumb or a bad faith argument. Again, Mahomes was not trying to make a completion at that point. It was a throwaway to take the points and put the game in his defense’s hands. The refs turning it into something else was a travesty.
Thought experiment: had the refs swallowed the whistle and the Eagles won, do you think anyone would be discussing that non call? I don’t believe they would for a minute.
I’ll end it there
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Re "late game" penalties: It's interesting to contrast this scenario with what generally transpires in NHL games, especially during their playoffs. Refs may freely dole out penalties during regulation, but if a game goes OT, they suddenly become very hesitant to blow the whistle unless it's something blatantly obvious. And for the most part, NHL fans are content with that.
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For my money, the NHL has the best rulebook and officiating in professional sports. I love the sport already, and am grateful that the league for all its faults has not placed a damper on the sport and that games remain largely decided by the athletes and coaching staffs.
I don't think the NFL has improved at all with replays and feel that the influence of officiating and the rulebook on outcomes (deliberate or not) has gotten way, way worse since the Rozelle and even the Tagliabue eras.
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I think my officiating outrage meter has been permanently disabled from watching a lot of college basketball. The difference game to game, home vs. away, early-game vs late-game and crew to crew is unbelievable and often infuriating. It would be nice for all sporting events to be officiated with machine like consistency but, you know, humans are involved.
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@SKT true
